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Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 15:11:00 - [1] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/06/2008 15:11:46 Originally by: Liang Nuren + Capless - Smaller ship capacitors Capless weapon IS a BIG advantage of minmatar that does NOT get cancelled by their small capacitors. Go compare an amarr ship + guns firing + tank and then compare a minmatar ship of same class with guns + tank, the minmatar ship will have more cap! What you are trying to say is that capless is balanced by small ship caps and by that claiming its not a real advantage over others. That is plain wrong. Originally by: Liang Nuren + High alpha - Low ROF High alpha is better in 95% of pvp situations. To claim high alpha is cancelled by low rof is a lie. High alpha IS an advantage over other races weaponry. Originally by: Liang Nuren + Powerful (ROF) or double damage bonuses to ships - Generically lower number of turrets You get rof bonuses because of inherent low damage on weapons on ships that are the gank ships. On the other hand they have other advantages like no cap. Other races use may have higher base damage but one of their dmg bonuses mostly go to something like cap use bonus instead. What minamtar on the other hand get is lower number of turrets wich is a GOOD thing. Less isk to fit AND you get extra highs to fit neuts and missiles and smarties. How is this a negative? LoL. Originally by: Liang Nuren + "Variable damage types" - Slightly lower DPS Yes they have slightly lower dps and have ok dmg type selection but what do those things have to do with eachother? Originally by: Liang Nuren + Higher falloff - Lower optimal High falloff means that falloff rigs are indirect dmg mods. This is good. Its not so good to have low optimal ofc but its balanced with other advantages of the weaponsystem. Originally by: Liang Nuren - Low clip size - Worst tracking (coming from the most "mobile" ships no less!) Yes clip size is a bit low. Tracking is fine. Originally by: Liang Nuren - Minnie BS's are generically "worse" than other BS's (and this is fine, it's racial flavor. Just don't ask for your race to pwn cruiser combat too.) - The Tempest specifically is hurting for a role. It's got a double damage bonus, and even ganked out it can't keep up these days. - The Phoon is wtf-skill-intensive. + Minnie BS's are faster than most other battleships, and have better agility. So minnie BS arent 100% of other BSs, they may be 96% of them maybe. So? Minnies totally dominate other ship classes. You seem to forget that. The truth is: +Minnie have good ships in some classes. -Minnie have ONE BS that is slightly worse then the others. shock Balance. Ok lets fix tempest, but lets also make all the other races frigs as good as a rifter, all the other races dictors as good as sabre and all the other races force recons as good and popular as rapiers. Sure I'll sign for that. So what if phoon is skill intence, its a stupidly good battleship. You cant seriously complain about it. Geddon is very skill intense aswell, so what? ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 20:56:00 - [2] Originally by: Trojanman190 Clearly you know more than all of us. Here we go again... another dude comparing 1 battleship's guns + active tank to another battleship's guns + active tank, adding lol at the end for confidence and then posting it to clearly show how right he is. You need to compare buffer tanks my friend, where cap is fairly meaningless and and you want all the damage you possibly can from your guns. Go back to your eft see who would win your hypothertical 1 on 1. (lol) I'm not understanding your concept of balance here... you think that because we have good ships in other areas... we should suck in this one... and you prefaced that with shock. So basically you are saying that it is balanced unblancedness for balance. And that you are shocked we don't agree. If you don't like being flamed for being a jackass try posting with respect for other people on the thre I can compare active tanks because not every fight is about passive tanking. According to you no one ever fits reps on battleships, its a blatant lie at best. You can lol all you like and accuse me of efting and in the next line talk about respect? Oh and you might want to check your recent killboard for my stats before you open your mouth about me EFTing and not knowning anything about pvp. You and your buddies dont look so good on it. Btw for every ship in every class to be exactly balanced you cant have racial perks like speed, hp resists. There will always be one config that is more beneficial for a ship class. If you dont understand this you fail. You implied that you basically want the same passive tank as an amarr ship. Well you cant have it. You want all ships to be exactly the same? I dont think you want that but that is what youre getting at just to justify redicilous boosts for your race. Oh and you might want to try 1 vs 1s or maybe 2 vs 2s instead of 50 man nano blobs and you might have a clue of why capless weapons are important. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 21:01:00 - [3] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/06/2008 21:01:36 Originally by: AstroPhobic Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Groteque amount of opinion with no numbers to back it up Well, I think the quote speaks for itself. Capless guns mean nothing in the era of passive tanks, and alpha is truly almost worthless. You forgot its also the era of speed and nanos. You hear the rest complaining about how we also want a fast dictor like the sabre? or a fast hac with speed bonus like vaga? If you need to be the best at passive tanking go train that ship. My point about ROF and alpha was that liang said that alpha is a + while rof is a -. In fact this has NOTHING to do with dps. You would basically always trade alpha for rof at a constant dps rate, it is not a downside like he tried to make it look. Try reading. Oh yeah and youre known to post alot of numbers are you? Goum has posted pages of numbers but is getting ignored by people like you in various discussions. Why should I bother typing up something that will get ignored? Oh and minmatar DO dominate some shipsclasses. Half of the recons in 0.0 space are RAPIERS. Yeah, true story. Come I'll buy you a ticket to tranquility and I can show you what is going on there. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 21:03:00 - [4] Originally by: To mare yes we get so good bonus that our ships almost do better with unbonused weapons than the bonused ones. Oh really? Thats funny, I can name a couple of amarr ships that perform better with ACs. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 21:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 26/06/2008 21:23:11 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Lyria Skydancer Oh and minmatar DO dominate some shipsclasses. Half of the recons in 0.0 space are RAPIERS. Yeah, true story. Come I'll buy you a ticket to tranquility and I can show you what is going on there. Eh, honestly, it's not possible to spin it like artillery (in particular) is anything approaching reasonable. Hell, even Goum will tell you that they're broken. Besides, nobody wants actual numbers Lyria (least of all, you). -Liang I do agree on some points. I just dont agree on many points, some of them I mentioned. They do need to fix the clip size problem first off atleast. Also the agility thing. ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 21:44:00 - [6] Originally by: Boz Well Quote: its a blatant lie at best. I'm not normally part of the grammar police, but this phrase got me thinking. If it's a blatant lie at best, wtf would it be at worst? Treason? I think you have that phrase backwards... proper usage might be it's misguided at best, but if anything, it's a blatant lie at worst, heh. haha, yeah I dunno. I like making up grammar :-p ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.06.26 23:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Trojanman190 You do have a clear pvp record and lots of experience it seems and I apologize for calling you an EFTer. You clearly have some real world experience. But you are still an arrogant troll with no regard for the opinions of others. You are obviously in the area so we will see each other in space. Fly safe. EDIT: After posting this I noticed you had since made some decent comments to people. Tiz nice. Feels good duznt it. I argue in a harsh way sometimes. Yes it annoys some people. Thats the way it is. Some points people agree some points we definately dont agree on I guess. Not much to do about that. I was just saying that some arguments were blown a bit our of proportion in the first post i quoted. I did agree on some point there aswell. I'll see you in space, we are very close :-p ----------------------------------------- [Video] I'm a soldier, so remember the name
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Eve Defence Force	Posted - 2008.08.12 21:28:00 - [8] Originally by: Trojanman190 N-N-N-NECROED The forum warfare is strong with you. ----------------------------------------- [Video] Support Barrage

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